Firstly, she makes probably a valid point, although overstated, about much of modern day Christian music.
Lyrics flashed up: "Come like a flood and saturate me now." I wondered what Freud would have made of the disproportionate use of such words as ‘‘come’’, ‘‘touch’’ and ‘‘feel’’, and the phrases "move within me" and "being filled". My favourite was "King of Glory, enter in".
Now, don't here me saying we should only sing the Psalms unaccompanied in church, or even badly written music with solid theological words. But I want, and it seems so do some non-Christians, words that speak more of God and praise him for who he is and what he has done; not songs that remind us of Cartman in a South Park episode about Christian Music.
Songs like In Christ Alone and Jesus Thank You (my current two favourites) are great because they express the reality of Jesus' death for our sins and the fact that we don't deserve that so well and to very moving music.
Next, Deveny moved to critique the infamous pentecostal 'giving talk'.
A pastor banged on about sacrifice and said it wasn’t important how much we sacrificed just as long as we gave as much as we could. No matter how small it was. I didn’t know what he was on about until the giving cards came round. And a little bucket for coins. No lid with a slot. A big open bucket, so you could be shamed by your paltry donation.
She could be misquoting, but... I'm not sure it doesn't matter how much we sacrifice. Like it mattered to God how much Jesus sacrificed, he sacrificed his life. If you're His disciple, then you have to be prepared to do likewise. Mark 8:34 says to follow Jesus we have to deny ourselves, our wants and desires, our right to life a comfortable life, and take up our cross and follow him. I take that to mean it could mean death. When it comes to sacrifice, dropping money into a bucket doesn't really cut it for me. When it comes to money we are to give generously and all that we can (2 Cor 9). Money is no big deal for Christians so that should joyfully and happily part with it for God's purposes. But it should be made clear that we aren't desperate for everyone's money. I've been to a few churches or events with 'giving talks' and I've never heard a good one. All I'm asking is they use the Bible properly.
Deveny continues:
Then there were the plugs for the Mighty Men’s night and Beautiful Women Seminar. Male volunteers were encouraged to get involved with the ladies’ seminar with the promise of ‘‘being able to tell 3000 women what to do’’. Beautiful women. Mighty men. Note: not mighty women and beautiful men.
This is good. This is clearly not a reaction by Deveny to something weird but to a biblical Christian distinctive. Men and Women are different and have different roles and the church encourages both equally to fulfill their roles in ways God has uniquely gifted them as men or women. It is good that this irks Deveny and is ultimately a strength of Christian community.
Following this, she talks about the sermon.
As people yelled, "Yeah!", "Amen!" and ‘‘Awesome!" [To the preaching about 'sheepgate'] I wanted to yell, "I don’t get it". I love the way religion convinces people by making things deliberately incomprehensible and you feel too shy to say ‘‘I don’t understand’’ lest you reveal your stupidity.
I would say here is a great example of why we need to be clear in our preaching. I didn't hear the sermon that Deveny went to so her question may simply have arised out of needing clarification or some points. However, unfortunately, often when Christians preach it does sound like a bunch of riddles and power words joined together to form some kind of wise sounding meaningless dribble. I once read something on a 'famous' young Christian leader's MySpace site (from Sydney) that I could not decipher any meaning from. Yet hundreds of comments had been left saying how it was exactly what they had been thinking or feeling and it was so good to finally have words to express the weight God had put on their heart... Which I found interesting because as far as I could tell it was illogical.
Our sermons should be clear. They should be sound, and they should be backed up from the Bible, and they should preferably eventually point to Jesus' death on the cross and his imminent return rather than aligning the lives and deeds of obscure Old Testament prophets with the power potential of our super awesome next Generation.
The crowd left believing they had been moved by God and touched by Jesus. They hadn’t. They had been seduced by slick video packages and had their emotional desire for love, community and certainty met by manipulation. It wasn’t the Holy Spirit; it was just people.
Unfortunately Denevy failed to meet Jesus and see the power that lives changed by Jesus can have on her visit to Planetshakers. Some of this could be put down to awkward or unclearness of their service (there would be similar problems in all Christian services, so dont' see me as taking a cheap shot at Planetshakers here). Much of it is problem put down to Denevy being a sinner in need of God's salvation. I will continue to pray that God would open her eyes to the love of God revealed to us in Jesus Christ.
Finally, Denevy leaves us with this question at the end of her article:
Aren’t we awesome enough?
The answer is a resounding NO Catherine. Despite our ability to put on cool rock shows, to have great entertaining services, to raise money, to give money, to do good, to be nice, to think, to write, to love, to care we are not awesome at all. Without Jesus, we are hopeless, lost and destined for the most unawesome place (hell). I implore you to repent of your sin, to put your faith and trust in Jesus and to enjoy God forever! That is awesome!
http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/shaken-but-not-stirred-by-stadiumrock-spirituality-20090728-e02k.html --> linky to the full article :)
ReplyDeleteHer comment about 'slick videos' etc reminded me of a blog I read the other week. John Piper wrote a blog about his opinions on using videos in church, and a response was posted on Collide Magazine (http://www.collidemagazine.com/blog/index.php/1117/we-respectfully-disagree-with-john-piper - has a link to the original article too).
ReplyDeleteI think her whole article gives a very realistic opinion of any disillusioned non-christian attending a well-produced church service.
Personally I find her comment about the music more disturbing: 'As the band fired up and went off like a frog in a sock, I thought: "I don’t care what they’re selling but I’m buying it."'This seems to be a reflection on the hype a good band can produce, that (to an outsider) can override the message they are giving.
I read an interesting mystery worshipper review of Hillsong (city campus) the other day, and one sentence really caught my eye about: "Did anything distract you?
The entire service itself was a little distracting because I felt a bit overstimulated. There was so much going on it was hard to settle down." (http://www.ship-of-fools.com/mystery/2008/1516.html)
Basically, I can (unfortunately perhaps) completely see where she's coming from with this article. None of her opinions are unique or new, as sad as we may find them.
Reading through her article I couldn't help but think she'd slam any church service she went too.
ReplyDeleteShe went to hate it.
She had equally harsh words about the church she grew up in and I don't doubt she would have equally harsh words about any service.
I think her article would give an equally harsh opinion of any poorly produced church service.
Lyrics from In Christ Alone like "my all in all", "Here in the death of Christ I live", "For I am His and He is mine" and "You the perfect Holy One, crushed Your Son" from Jesus Thank You would surely have been ridiculed.
I don't think it matters which dialect of Christianese your church speaks. Any outsider with an agenda is going to find something wrong with it.
I think I agree John. And I don't know the full lyrics of the songs they were singing. But I was merely using her comments as a way into my discomfort and dissatisfaction what that type of Christianese speak.
ReplyDeleteYeah I get that Chris.
ReplyDeleteI tend to get uptight whenever we buy into this type of negativity. Anyone Christian or Atheist can point out what's wrong with any church they attend.
I think we as Christians to often blur the line between constructive criticism and self righteous negativity.
I can't tell you how many times I've looked down on something some church does just because it's not what I like or think is right!
Hi Chris,
ReplyDeleteI was a bit concerned by your comment "Men and Women are different and have different roles and the church encourages both equally to fulfill their roles in ways God has uniquely gifted them as men or women. It is good that this irks Deveny and is ultimately a strength of Christian community."
I'm probably less persuaded than you are that men and women are different in character or gifting. But what reallllly bothers me is that men are defined by their 'mightiness' and women by their beauty. I'm sure someone will say that it's about inner beauty, but that isn't the message our society gives, and it isn't the message you get in the bookstall at Hillsong either. It may be grounded in an assumption that men and women have equal but complementary roles, but for women, it is inequitable and uncomplimentary.
@John - for sure, even after I posted this I wondered whether I was being too harsh. I guess the thing is can you have an in house argument over things without ruling out the other persons salvation. That's when it gets nasty. When you imply that because someone says things or sings thing different to you they are going to hell. Now obviously if they are denying Jesus, then that's another matter, but Planetshakers don't do that, and I am more on their side than I am Denevy's!
ReplyDelete@Jill - I think that the idea that men and women are equal but different is fairly persuasive. Leaving out the Bible for a moment, I think that at least purely on an anatomical and hormonal level we can see this. On those biological reasons alone, I can't see why this wouldn't give rise naturally to us having different skills or gifting. Look at sport for example, we have mens and women sports because men are usually bigger and stronger (not always more skillful though, my fiancee is far superior at sport than I am.) Likewise I think the way God has made men and women naturally means we are more gifted at somethings than others.
I can understand the whole mighty men, beautiful women thing bothering you. I guess it probably is about inner might and inner beauty and they are trying to recapture those terms and redefine them better. But I have never seen a brochure for either conference nor spoken with the pastors so I don't know. I've also never read the Hillsong books you mention. I also would have a problem with promoting physical beauty or strength with Godliness though, if that's what they do.
I'm also not sure that having equal and complementary roles is inequitable and uncomplimentary... That would seem illogical. And why only that way for women? Surely if it's inequitable and uncomplimentary for women then it is for men too?
Hi Chris,
ReplyDeleteWhile I wouldn't for a moment suggest that there aren't differences between men and women on an anatomical and hormonal level, I am not at all convinced that this has any relevance for the roles that men and women play in the life of the body of Christ.
I'm not about to try to persuade you on this, and I need to acknowledge that as a teacher, preacher and leader who has wrestled with these issues for over 30 years, I'm probably not interested in being persuaded by you, either.
To try to explain a little though: it is my experience that the "equal but complementary" rhetoric almost always plays out in a way that means that men are encouraged to exercise their gifts fully and freely, while women are constrained in the use of their gifts. That is inequitable. The "uncomplimentary" thing is a bit more subtle. I wasn't just playing with words. A compliment affirms and encourages. My experience of the complementarian approach has been anything but affirming and encouraging. Indeed, it has often been extremely painful.